In Episode 39, hepatologists Dr Ian Rowe and Dr. Kris Kowdley, who divide their time more or less evenly between patient clinics and clinical trials, join the Surfers to discuss how the Second Wave of COVID-19 will affect patient treatment and clinical trials. This conversation turns conventional wisdom on its ear. The Surfers focused less on individuals’ behavior and more on supply chain disruptions, growing shortfalls in the number of available healthcare workers and large-scale dislocations that will occur after the vaccine is in place. This episode challenges underlying assumptions about how the next few years might evolve and what will matter most.